You haven’t heard of Zeam yet, but after the Super Bowl you most likely will know the name. Zeam is a new streaming home for news, sports and culture from hundreds of local television stations across the country in one central, highly personalized hub, and it’s free, live and on-demand. The new service is launching…
Ahead of Super Bowl 58, Nerds teased its first Big Game ad with a 15-second spot featuring musician and dancer Addison Rae teaching dance moves to a mystery student. Now, the brand’s full Super Bowl ad has been released, revealing the student to be none other than a Nerds Gummy. In a 30-second spot created…
Meet Toby Young at mediabistro’s July 12 celebration and reading of The Sound of No Hands Clapping.
mediabistro: You’ve worked in multiple industries, including theater, journalism, books, and filmmaking. What’s the relative bridge-burning quotient in each? Which industry (or individuals within it) forgives quicker, which forgets, and which will never stop punishing you for prior offenses?
Toby Young: The general rule is that success absolves you of any sin. In my first
book, for instance, I was pretty heretical about Condé Nast, but I
got away with it because the book did quite well. Once it got onto
The New York Times‘ bestseller list, Si Newhouse had to call off his
assassins. If it had done badly, by contrast, I think I would have
disappeared without a trace. (This may be a total fantasy on my part.
It could be that Si is completely unaware of the book to this day.)
There is an exception to this rule: actors. Woe betide the writer who
dares to criticize an actor—and the better known the writer, the
more heinous the foul. For the past five years, I’ve been the drama
critic of the Spectator (Britain’s equivalent of The New Yorker) and
I don’t think a single actor I’ve given a bad notice to has forgiven
me. They have the memory of elephants.
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This reminds me of an anecdote related by the Oscar-winning
screenwriter Frederic Raphael. It dates back to the 1970s when he was
writing plays for British television: “An actor came up to me and
asked whether I thought that the hydrogen bomb really represented a
threat to the future of the human race. I answered with a lot of on
the one hand, and then again on the other. I had given him, he said,
a lot to think about. Another actor sidled up to me and said, “May I
say something? When an actor asks whether you think that the human
race is threatened by atomic weapons, the required answer is, ‘I
think you’re giving an absolutely wonderful performance.’”
mediabistro: How do you follow up a success like your previous book? Was it
easier or harder to get started on The Sound of No Hands Clapping?
Young: Undoubtedly much harder. I knew that people would be gunning for me
after the success of the first book and that made me much more self-
critical. I’d write a chapter, read it back, and then screw it up
into a ball and hurl it across the room, saying, “It’s going to have
to be a lot better than that.”
In the end, after several deadlines had sailed past, I just decided
to get on with it. I realized there was no point in worrying what the
critics would say because they’ll all say the same thing: “I loved
the first one, but this one sucks.” And, of course, some of the
critics saying this will be the same ones who said that my first book
sucked five years ago.
mediabistro: Who/what friends or bigwigs have you alienated since your latest
book? How about those you pissed off around the time of the first
one—have any come back around?
Young: The Sound of No Hands Clapping was published in America on July 4 and
doesn’t come out in Britain until September 7, so it’s too early to
say. I’m hoping not to receive any threatening letters from high-
powered attorneys, which I did first time round. Having said that, I
did receive a call from Stephen Woolley, the guy who’s producing the
movie version of my first book and who appears as a character in the
latest one. He said he wasn’t particularly delighted with the way
I’ve portrayed him—and then added, as if the two things were
entirely unconnected, that he’s arranged to review it for The Times
of London.
mediabistro: What do you think about the “fake writer” controversies of late, for
example, James Frey and Kaavya Viswanathan?
Young: Well, those are two different controversies. In the case of James
Frey, he could have avoided all the trouble by including a simple
disclaimer at the beginning of A Thousand Little Pieces admitting
that he’d altered a few of the facts. It’s only because he tried to
pass off everything in his book as 100 percent true that he got busted.
I’ve
always made it very clear that only 95 percent of my books are true. It
probably helps that my memoirs are supposed to be funny. I think
readers grant authors a certain latitude if they make them laugh.
David Sedaris is a case in point. No one reading a book by him thinks
that every story he tells happened exactly the way he describes it.
They know he’s given things a little twist in order to make them
funny, in the same way you would if you were telling a story to a
group of friends in a bar.
Kaavya Viswanathan has been accused of plagiarism, which is a very
different charge. The thing that amazes me about cases like hers is
why the authors don’t bother to put what they’ve lifted from other
sources in their own words. I mean, even when I copied out large
chunks from text books in my school essays I knew enough to do that.
I do feel sorry for Kaavya Viswanathan, though. It’s terrible for a
writer’s career to be ended at such a young age. I hope she has
another go at writing a book, only this time all in her own words.
mediabistro: Where do your memoirs land on the authenticity spectrum? Is there
more pressure now to quantify how much you massaged actual events to
make them entertaining to readers? Did this come up between you and
your agent, editor or anyone else at Da Capo?
Young: I made it very clear to my editor at Da Capo, both in the case of How to Lose Friends and The Sound of No Hands Clapping, that I’ve given
some of the stories in both books a bit of top spin. He responded by
saying he wouldn’t have expected anything less and that, in fact,
he’d be very disappointed if I hadn’t made some things up. I’ve kept
a copy of that email because I have this terrible vision of some
diligent journalist going through both books with a fine-toothed comb
and teasing out all the fabrications. If that ever happens, at least
I’ll be able to prove that I never tried to hoodwink my editor.
mediabistro: What do you think of Oprah? Is she good for publishing?
Young: Yes, undoubtedly. I’m a huge fan—and I’m not just saying that
because I’d like to be on her show. What’s not to like about the fact
that she promotes books? The only people who object to it are snobs
who don’t like the idea of their own treasured little habits being
taken up by the hoi polloi. Literary culture is in decline and
anything that slows that process down is to be applauded.
mediabistro: What are you working on right now? What will your next book be
about? If you don’t know, what are you leaning towards?
Young: I’ve just co-authored a sex farce about the Royal Family that’s
debuting in an off-West End theatre on July 20. It’s the second play
I’ve written with Lloyd Evans, a fellow journalist whom I also share
the theatre beat with at the Spectator, and I hope we’ll write
several more. Plays don’t make any money—at least, ours don’t—but
it’s tremendously good fun writing them and putting them on. One of
the best things about playwriting is that the author is king. The
director literally can’t change a word without the writer’s consent.
That’s very different from the movie business, obviously, and that’s
one of the reasons successful screenwriters are so well paid—it’s a
way of compensating them for being so incredibly disrespected. As one
screenwriter said about working for the Hollywood studios: “They ruin
your stories. They trample on your pride. They massacre your ideas.
And what do you get for it? A fortune.”
mediabistro: What is the state of book publishing—best and worst thing about the
industry right now?
Young: It’s a winner-take-all economy. If you’re in the winner’s enclosure,
that’s great, obviously, but if you’re not, it’s terrible. The number
of authors who actually make a living from book-writing in the United
States—and I’m talking about proper books, rather than text books—
is less than 200. As a career choice, writing books is about as
rational as playing the New York Lottery. Still, there are
compensations. You get to describe yourself as a “published author”
at parties and prestigious Web sites solicit your opinions about stuff.
|
“I write down
|
mediabistro: How long can you make a living going places, then being cast out?
At a
certain point, will you have to live in a cave?
Young: I think I have one more memoir in me, then I’m going to wait 25
years, and start publishing my diaries. Otherwise, as you say, I’d
have to live in a cave. The great thing about the diary form is that
you really can burn all your bridges there because you’re so close to
death by the time they’re published that you’ve got nothing to lose.
I started keeping a diary four years ago and I think I’ve already
accumulated enough material for at least one volume. I write down
every juicy piece of gossip I hear, particularly about celebrities. I
can’t publish any of it now because of the libel laws—it’s all
rumor and hearsay, obviously—but if I wait for the subjects to
shuffle off their mortal coils, I’ll be fine. You can’t libel the
dead. Or, rather, you can, but they can’t sue you for it. As Mae West
said, “Keep a diary and some day it’ll keep you.”
mediabistro: The current obsession with celebrities was just picking up steam
when
you came to New York as a journalist in the mid-90’s- does the fact that
popular culture is fixated on celebs these days make your life/job any
easier, considering your area of expertise (pissing off big names, then
documenting it)?
Young: I’m interested in celebrities as a collective group but I can’t
muster much interest in individual celebrities any more. They all
tend to blend into one another. Like most other journalists, I’m
waiting with bated breath for the public to turn on the celebrity
class, but every time you think people’s interest in them must have
peaked, it then increases exponentially. Indeed, I think it might even
be possible to come up with a similar rule to the one about
microprocessor speed: the number of column inches about celebrities
in the national press doubles every 18 months. One of my long-term
projects is a novel called Starmaggedon about a dystopian future in
which celebrities have become the underclass. Realistically, though,
I don’t think that’s going to happen for a very long time.
mediabistro: With the focus on family life in your latest book, and the
associated revelations, some might accuse you of going soft. Share
a recent story/anecdote to the contrary.
Young: One story that isn’t in the book is that a day after my first child
was born I waited for my wife and baby to fall asleep and then crept
out of the house and went to a party. Unfortunately, for the rest of
the evening I kept bumping into my wife’s friends, all of whom asked
what on earth I was doing out drinking given that Caroline had had a
baby 24 hours earlier. I managed to sneak back into the house without
waking up my wife, but the following day all her friends called her
to tell her they’d seen me out the night before. My marriage still
hasn’t recovered from that.
**
Rebecca L. Fox is mediabistro’s features editor.
Isaac Mizrahi is a man of many talents: he’s headlined his own one-man off-Broadway show, makes a mean roast chicken, wrote a series of comic books (Sandee the Supermodel), designed costumes for Broadway (The Women, for which he won a Drama Desk Award) and the New York Metropolitan Opera (Orfeo ed Euridice) and just happens to design two of the most talked-about women’s collections of the year. The man who helped make Target the capital of high-low chic, is currently having a moment. His eponymous line shown during New York’s Fashion Week garnered rave reviews, his first collection for Liz Claiborne has just hit stores, and everyone from Michelle Obama to savvy and newly price-conscious socialites are stepping out in his sunny, cinema-inspired looks.
Mizrahi’s personal story is just as compelling as one of those “fabulous” black and white films starring Joan Crawford or Carole Lombard that he can (and will) recite line by line. Born in Brooklyn, he spent much of his childhood staging puppet shows in his backyard and designing clothes for his mother’s friends. He went on to study at The High School of Performing Arts and Parsons School of Design before launching his own business in 1987. Mizrahi became a pop cultural phenomenon — and a household name — when he made the 1995 documentary Unzipped, which offered a hilarious and unvarnished look at his life behind the seams in fashion. While his own star continued to rise, his company faltered, and in 1998 backer Chanel shuttered his business.
But Mizrahi came back in a big way in 2003 with his trailblazing line for Target and the launch of a number of licensed brands. Now newly installed as the creative director for Liz Claiborne, Mizrahi is determined to revive the brand that was a staple of the working woman’s wardrobe in the 1980s with his signature mix of bold brights, whimsical accessories, sunny prints and public relations savvy. He’s off to a good start: Just last month, it was announced that Seventh Avenue’s renaissance man would be helming a new reality show on Bravo called — what else? — The Fashion Show. As host and “head judge,” Mizrahi’s presiding over a team of aspiring fashionistas looking for their big break. The show is scheduled to premiere May 7.
Name: Isaac Mizrahi
Position: Creative director, Liz Claiborne, and host of The Fashion Show on Bravo
Resume: Designer, television personality and first-time author (How to Have Style, Gotham Books 2008). Joined Liz Claiborne as creative director last year after a successful six-year run with Target. Winner of four CFDA awards, including a special award in 1996 for Unzipped. Hosted two television series — for Oxygen and the Style Network.
Birthdate: October 14, 1961
Hometown: Brooklyn, New York
Education: Parson’s School of Design
First section of the Sunday Times: “The obituaries. It feeds the morbid side of me that wants to know about people who just died. It also feeds my obsession with my own death. But the first thing I read every morning is the horoscope in the New York Post.”
Favorite TV show: “I love Ugly Betty, The Ghost Whisper and Ace of Cakes on the Food Network and Top Chef.”
Guilty pleasure: “Eating. My addiction is food. I love to cook.”
Last book read: I read a lot of different things at one time. I just read Doris Kearns Goodwin’s No Ordinary Time and Secret Ingredients, which is a compilation of all the great food writers of The New Yorker. It’s really, really good. There’s this thing in there on casseroles that I loved.”
You’re one very busy man who just got busier. How did the new show come about?
I was talking to Andy Cohen [Bravo’s senior vice president of production and programming], who I think is the most charming, fabulous person on Earth, and we were talking about one project and he came back and said, ‘What about this?’ I had even more enthusiasm for this idea than the one we had been talking about. A few weeks later, he came back with an offer and here we are. I can’t refuse him anything. Actually, that’s the best part of this relationship — I do adore the Bravo people so much. They’re so smart — smarter than the average network executive.
They certainly are committed to marketing their shows in a big way.
Yes! They’re really taking over — this [fashion reality show] genre belongs to them.
When did this all happen?
Recently — in December. And to all you deal-makers out there: Unless something happens quickly, it’s not going to happen. Unless it takes 10 years. Things either take two months or 10 years.
What can you tell me about your role on the show?
I’m the host and kind of like the head judge. The first day of work was the day after my collection [premiered], and I was so exhausted. It was a day of blocking and I was like, I am not going to make it through these five weeks. I don’t sleep well usually, but I ended up going home after that first day and slept for like 20 hours or something scary like that, and I found myself in the most divine position. I felt like, ‘Oh my God, this is the most fun, engrossing job in the world because when you take away all your preconceived notions about it and get that this is a bunch of struggling young designers who are really trying to prove themselves, the drama of that, at least to me, is irresistible. After almost every elimination, I feel like sobbing. It’s very, very sad for me.
I don’t know how they are going to edit it. They may edit it where I’m telling [the contestants] all the bitchiest, meanest things, but I do think they need to hear that. They do need to rise above the whole personal thing and play it like a game, but it’s tricky. At the same time you’re encouraging them to make it the end-all, be-all of their lives — like, ‘Unless this is completely attached to your ego, don’t bother.’ This is totally personal and not personal at all. Do you know what I mean?
When Unzipped came out, people stopped me in the street and said, ‘That was such a lesson about tenacity and not listening to anyone and just doing what you want and I was so inspired…’ Artists, lay people — all kinds of people were stopping me on the street. I think this is going to inspire people. The message to me, so far, is you have to completely attach yourself and completely detach yourself at the same time. On top of that, you need to enjoy your life. Do something out of a place of joy and fun, otherwise don’t bother. This is what we keep coming back to on the show.
| “[Michelle Obama]’s kind of like the Carrie Bradshaw of the next 10 years.” |
You’re hardly someone that sits home doing nothing to begin with. How are you fitting this into your already jam-packed schedule?
(Laughs) Honestly, I don’t know. I have 10 days of work and one day off. So there’s one day of the week which is quite calm — or really every third day I get a half day of shooting, so I take care of a lot of business on those days. I have a day off every 10 days and a lot of it gets done then. And, I work at night because I don’t really sleep that much.
How many hours a night do you need?
Four. I don’t need a lot. Then, occasionally, I’ll sleep for like 20 hours.
It seems as if Bravo’s plan is to have your show fill the void left by Project Runway. What do you think?
I’m sure strategically that’s part of what the network is thinking. Also, it’s thinking, ‘Hello, we created this genre and somewhere along the line, they took it away from us.’ Of course, I don’t know what critics will think, and I don’t know if Project Runway is totally a beloved thing, but I don’t really see it at all as competing with that show. It’s just a fashion competition show. There should be more than one. There are so many food competition shows on every channel — not just the Food Network. I think it’s just a really entertaining form of reality television.
One big advantage working with Bravo is that you’ve got NBC Universal behind you. Are there promotions or cross-overs with the network planned? I noticed you did the Oscar fashion post-mortem on Today.
Probably. I’ve worked for the Today show a lot. I used to do segments for them.
I know you’ve done some red carpet reporting. The infamous Scarlett Johansson boob grab comes to mind…
That was for E!, actually. (Laughs) Can you refer to it as the ‘underwire grab?’ — because I so was not grabbing her boob. It was more like the ‘underwire feel.’
Speaking of the red carpet, I thought the fashion at this year’s Oscars was bad. And those few women who did look fabulous ditched the red carpet and went in the back door. Bad news for fashion all around. I thought it was dreadful.
Honestly, so did I. There was no color and nothing daring. Nobody took any risks. It’s getting worse and worse that way.
| “I do feel at this age — I’m 47 now — I can walk into a room and say to a television executive, ‘I think this is a really good idea.’” |
I know you’re a huge television fan. What were your favorite shows growing up?
There were so many. I’m really a television person. Because of the insomnia, I never shut it off. It was always like my best friend. At some point, my parents thought that maybe it was the TV that was keeping me up, so they tried to get rid of it. I threw such a fit, they couldn’t do that. Honestly, it ended with this really bad scene with my mother throwing the TV set on the floor. (Laughs) It was not pretty at all, but I ended up getting my way.
I loved reruns of I Love Lucy. It’s such a typical, trite answer, but I love watching it. It’s not on TV Land anymore — I think it’s on the Hallmark Channel. I happened to see it the other day — it doesn’t matter how many times I’ve seen an episode, I was screaming. It’s the funniest damn thing on television.
I grew up watching talk shows — I loved Merv Griffin, I loved Mike Douglas, I loved Johnny Carson. I was an addict for those. It seemed like people actually talked. When I did my talk shows on Oxygen and Style [Network], I tried to actually talk — I really didn’t just want to promote movies. I wanted to talk about people’s thoughts, and I didn’t want it to be so pre-produced. If I go back to talk television, I’ll do something like that. Just come on because you feel like talking about something.
You’ve always seemed to gravitate toward television in a big way. You’ve been on Oprah and every talk show imaginable, you’ve had your own shows and appeared on Sex & The City and Ugly Betty. You’ve even been on Jeopardy. Why are you so drawn to the medium?
It is true that I gravitate towards it. It’s part of who I am because I’m a ham. I like talking. I like to express myself in many, many ways. I like a lot of things. I don’t just like designing clothes. I’m very inspired by all different forms of expression. I read a ton. It’s not enough just to design clothes. I don’t know what I’ll ever be remember as — if I’ll be remembered. I don’t know what I’ll be remembered for — Unzipped or my clothes or my cabaret act. I have to say a major part of the joy of my life is not knowing that and not looking over my shoulder and wondering why I’m not doing more of one thing and less of another thing.
If people think of it as me reinventing myself, I’m glad. If that’s a good lesson for people, it’s good, but more than anything it’s about me not feeling bored. It’s me being engaged in the moment. I don’t mean to be arrogant about stuff. I used to sew a lot as a kid. When I look at a sample and the pattern maker says, ‘I can’t do any better’ I say, ‘Well, you’re fired because I can do better.’ When I go to a restaurant, I think, ‘This is a roasted chicken? You’ve got to be kidding me!’ There are some things you become really good at, but that doesn’t mean you have to spend the rest of your life roasting chickens. You know what I mean? I do feel at this age — I’m 47 now — I can walk into a room and say to a television executive, ‘I think this is a really good idea.’
| “Of all the things I do,
is probably my favorite because it’s more personal. It’s what I do instead of a talk show now.” |
Unzipped is arguably the high-water mark for depicting what really goes on in fashion in a very accurate and entertaining way. Fashion is such fodder for movies and television — how do you think the industries have affected each other? Is there any downside to it at all?
I don’t think there’s a downside. I think it’s a paradigm that is continually shifting. The more we portray fashion as something that’s over the top, the more we’re going to sell over the top clothes. There’s the Shakespearean other to side to that coin too, which is the more over the top things there are in the world, more of the opposite of that exists as well. I think the more you shine the light on fashion in the form of entertainment, the better it is for our industry. Unzipped was probably my most important life’s work, unfortunately. No matter what I do as a designer, it will never be as potent as what I did with Unzipped because it made fashion work in that format.
You’re also opening yourself up in much of the same way on your Web site and seem really into that. How much time do you spend on that?
Every single day there’s a new reason to log on. Either it’s a three-minute segment or a new video blog or some bit that’s new. We spend three long, full days a month taping. Then I tape my video blog two or three times a week. We also take pictures with my video blog camera, and I put stuff up almost every single day. Of all the things I do, it’s probably my favorite because it’s more personal. It’s really like a scrap book. It’s what I do instead of a talk show now.
Now with the added commitment of the show, will you be scaling back your involvement with that?
No. We have shoot dates planned for April. With daily blogging, I’m trying to do what I can in my dressing room. It’s fun. It’s too delicious to give up. (Laughs)
There’s probably no bigger fashion star right now than Michelle Obama. What do you think she’s going to do for American fashion?
I think she’s going to be an unbelievable ambassador for fashion. I love her — especially because she loves clothes. She has such a young take on the whole thing. Young, yet proprietary. She’s kind of like the Carrie Bradshaw of the next 10 years.
You were one of the first proponents of ‘high-low’ style. These days everyone is having to consider what that means. How do you think that phenomenon is going to affect the fashion industry long-term?
Even more than the economy, I think the Obama family is going to affect it. [Michelle Obama] is the perfect example of high-low because she values the J.Crew sweater as much as she does some ensemble by Isabel Toledo. I just think that speaks volumes about the direction everyone has been going in for a number of years.
The acceptance of design at different levels is remarkable now. To me, the greatest luxury is the right thought or the right idea. That could cost very little — the right thinking at the right time. So more and more, as people get conscious of budget, I don’t think ‘fast fashion’ will be as trendy. I think actual design will be valued.
[Michelle Obama’s] choices, for the most part, haven’t been at all mainstream.
That’s true. It’s for the love of something. It’s not because she sat with a million stylists and they said, ‘You should do this or that.’ It’s like someone actually had some passionate feeling for something. And, it’s very politically correct that she wore Isabel Toledo [for the inauguration].
Do you think it’s harder to break into the fashion business now than it was 10 year ago?
(Pauses) No. My answer is no, I don’t. It was so hard breaking into the fashion industry 20 years ago. If you ask Calvin Klein how hard it was breaking into the fashion industry 40 years ago or Ralph Lauren how hard it was 50 years ago … it’s always really hard. It doesn’t get any easier. Every generation thinks, ‘Oh my God, it’s never been so terrible,’ but it has.
Speaking of hard times, your costar Fern Mallis told me not too long ago that she thought the coverage in WWD and other publications has focused too heavily on gloom and doom of the economy — there wasn’t enough cheerleading for the fashion industry and all the negativity almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. What do you think?
I don’t know that people are that gullible anymore. I think WWD is right on. I love the idea of telling it like it is. When I was a kid growing up, it was much less about that. It was kind of like propaganda — ‘Oh, no, everything is great!’ and then you’re out of business. I was once having lunch with Joan Collins and she was in a revival of some Noel Coward play. I said to her, ‘How are tickets selling?’ and she said, ‘Lousy!’ I thought, ‘Wow, imagine, you’re in this play, and you are so fabulous and you can say, ‘I’m sorry the ticket sales suck.’ I wish I was in an industry like that, where you could just say, ‘Business isn’t good right now.’ So I’m a champion of telling it like it is.
Your collections and certainly your attitude toward the business in general have always been very optimistic. How significant a part has that played in your career and your desire to keep trying new things?
I’ve trained myself to think a certain way. For me, there’s nothing in life but bravery. There’s nothing in life but looking at the thing you’re most afraid of and doing it. That, to me, is all. You can see it in my clothes. The clothes for Liz [Claiborne] are so optimistic. If you go and just wear black for the rest of your life now because there’s a recession, the circumstances have won. They’ve won out. You have lost the big hard battle. It just like what President Obama was saying: Now is not the time to lose the battle, now is the time to see all the gray areas and try to work within those areas. I want you to think about a pink print. You take one step at a time, one belt at a time, one shoe at a time, and you’ll get there.
Despite having had some bumps in the road, you’ve continued to do try new things and reinvent yourself in some interesting news ways. What’s the secret to your longevity?
I don’t see this as reinvention, I see it as living my life every single day and not being bored to death. I don’t reinvent anything, I just do what I think is right and seems amusing. I only do things I’m excited about.
What the best piece of advice you could offer to someone looking to get into the business?
(Pauses) Don’t listen to anybody. Do exactly what you think is right, and you’ll find your moment and your audience.
What would you consider your greatest success at this juncture?
Probably the Target thing. Having made that ‘masstige’ [prestige for the masses] thing happen.
What about your biggest disappointment?
Wow. (Pauses) My partnership with Chanel.
How would you say you’ve gotten to where you are?
The way I’ve gotten to where I am was not thinking about getting anywhere. I really mean this — I don’t think about where things are going. I think about where I am and how much I am engaged in what I’m doing. That’s one of the early lessons I learned after 10 years in business: If you feel put upon or if you feel like you have to do something you’re never going to be good at, you’re never going to do it well. The lesson I learned is unless everybody is doing exactly as they please, it’s not going to work. I’ve learned that in hiring and working with people that unless they’re doing exactly as they please and what they feel they are good at and feel challenged in doing, then you’re not going to get good work out of them. Get someone who really needs the thing you want them to do.
Do you have a motto?
I don’t have a motto, but I have this thing that I made up about style: Style is knowing when not to have any.
Diane Clehane is a contributing editor to FishbowlNY and TVNewser. She writes the ‘Lunch‘ column.
[This interview has been edited for length and clarity.]
In 2001, Heather Hartle and her then-husband, Tom, relocated to San Francisco from Detroit and founded Hartle Media LLC. The pair launched 7×7, a city magazine named for the size of the Bay Area metropolis that was aimed at its “edgy” and “hipper” citizens. The pair has since divorced but continue to work side by side — almost literally — in the company’s downtown loft. Hartle serves as editorial and creative director of 7×7 and California Home Design and assists with Spin, which Hartle Media’s investment partner, McEvoy Group, purchased in 2006. In October, she spoke with mediabistro.com about launching the week before Sept. 11, transitioning the magazine to the Web, and why SF needed another city mag.
Name: Heather Hartle
Position: Co-founder, Hartle Media; editorial and creative director, 7×7 and California Home Design
Resume: Founded HOUR Media LLC in Detroit before relocating to San Francisco with her then-husband Tom.
Marital status: Divorced
You launched 7×7 the week before Sept. 11, 2001. Did you think you were going to be okay or was it ‘Oh, shit this couldn’t be a worse time’?
It was a little bit of both. It was, “Oh, shit, we couldn’t have done this at a worse time,” but with that said, the people who really wanted to stay and work — both in this city and in this industry — stayed, and we were able to get really talented people that we might not have been able to afford prior.
The city and the whole country was looking for something inspirational and aspirational, and our type of book is all about celebrating the city. Besides 9/11, there was the dot-com bust, so there was this slow melt and downturn in San Francisco, and then with September 11, the whole nation, so it worked for the best.
Now we’re in the next advertising slowdown. Are you starting to see this in print and on the Web?
We’re starting to feel it most definitely. Areas like luxury and fashion are still strong, very strong. Things like real estate — the big condo buildings and commercial real estate — are down a little bit, but we’re anticipating everyone going back a little bit more. We’re concentrating more online and the bigger programs that are attractive to advertisers there.
San Francisco already had San Francisco Magazine, which is quite similar to 7×7. They are both upscale city mags. What made you think you could compete and succeed?
San Francisco Magazine has a Bay Area-wide focus. It’s the peninsula, North Bay, and East Bay. 7×7 is named for the size of the city, seven by seven square miles. It’s San Francisco, so we felt that there was a need for a voice that spoke right to people who lived in the city — a little bit edgy, a little bit hipper, not trying to be everything to everybody. It’s really delivered to an audience that is aspirational and going out and doing the things that make the city so fabulous. And it worked. People came.
We’re very community involved. That has been one of our successes. We’ve always been grassroots. We’ve supported a lot of community groups and efforts. We really feel like we’re part of the city.
| “People traditionally think of the print magazine first and [say], ‘Oh, let’s do some Web exclusives,’ but what I’m challenging my team to do is go to the Web first and do some print exclusives.” |
What kind of community groups?
We were just big sponsors of the Academy of Sciences opening, which was a big deal across the country and across the world. [We also support] animal rescue shelters. We’ve got hundreds of charities that we are involved with.
You mentioned you’re focusing more on the Web. How are you divvying up tasks? Do you have dedicated Web staff?
We are relaunching our current Web site at the end of November. We have one main editor on the Web and everybody who writes for the magazine is starting to write for the Web as well, and then I have a pool of freelancers and bloggers who we cull the best of the best from the area and highlight their existing blogs. With the redesign of the Web site, we are also redesigning the magazine. People traditionally think of the print magazine first and [say], “Oh, let’s do some Web exclusives,” but what I’m challenging my team to do is go to the Web first and do some print exclusives. It’s going to be a different model for our editors because they aren’t used to thinking like that.
How does it work with the independent bloggers? Do they keep their “brands” under your platform?
Yes.
And do you pay them?
It’s exposure. They are looking for exposure and traffic. For those that fit within the print vehicle, they also get a column in the magazine, so they are getting some print coverage, which is really what they are after. That model has been working well, but the more I get, I don’t have that much print room.
Do you think luxury publications work as well on the Web? The first thing I notice about the print version of 7×7 is that it’s beautifully laid out and designed, and I’m not sure that comes across on a Web site.
I don’t disagree with you. I think our particular brand is so well known now for its access to the city — we bring access that no one else can get, whether it’s something as simple as party pictures, but also the restaurant news or shops opening or closing. [That’s] the service end, and that’s what we’re going to be pushing on the Web, all access, all the time. Of course, we’ll still make it beautiful and have photo galleries, but I agree with you that it’s not quite the same.
San Francisco is a tech-savvy town. Is it important to have a Web site that’s up-to-date with the latest technology? Do you get pressure from your readers and users to update with the newest features?
I haven’t really directly felt that or seen it. I think we put that pressure on ourselves. It’s funny, the first version of the Web site was over two years ago and it was very traditional thinking: “Let’s just get the print magazine online.” It wasn’t thinking that we were going to have exclusive and daily content just online. The redesign is meant so that we can really be more flexible.
Can you talk a little bit about the acquisition of Spin? What opportunities did you see in 2006? It seems like an interesting time to go into music magazines.
Yeah, I can talk about it. Just so you know, the way that the business is structured, 7×7 and California Home Design are straight out owned by Hartle Media with our investment partner. Spin is actually a little different. It’s under the McEvoy Group, which is our investment partner, so Hartle doesn’t straight up own it, but my business partner [Tom] is the president of Spin so it definitely comes through the office.
We saw the opportunity that if there’s any kind of magazine that should be online, it’s a music magazine. People aren’t waiting for music reviews once a month on the newsstand anymore. It’s instantaneous. It’s the young, active, easily branded to market that we were after and it’s been fun. It’s definitely going in the right direction.
How do you and Tom work together?
He runs more of the business side, while I run the editorial and creative side of it. He’s very much involved with Spin on a day-to-day basis and I’m 7×7 and California Home Design on a day-to-day. We cross when we need each other’s help on both.
You’re the creative director and the editorial director of both magazines. What are the advantages and disadvantages of this?
Well, the advantages are that I get to envision the final package together, how the edit and the creative — from the marketing to individual layouts — come together. I never really thought about it to be honest. I just do it. I kind of always have.
It’s fun because I get to work with, obviously because I’m an owner, the sales side extensively in coming up with the editorial calendar and what will be a good sales tool and how to execute that creatively.
How much of the design are you actually doing? Are you on the top level and then you farm it out the editors or are you coming up with the packages?
It goes both ways. Right now because of online I’m heavily involved in every part of that. On the print side, unless we are reinventing something, I just let everybody grab that theme that month and they end up pitching to me and I can say yes or no. I get very involved on the creative side from photographers to actual layout.
Noah Davis is a freelance writer living in Brooklyn, New York.
[This article has been edited for length and clarity.]
Joe Zee is having a moment. Having worked his way up from Seventh Avenue schlepper to front-row fixture over the course of his 20-year career, Zee’s star has never burned brighter. Last year, he was tapped as Elle‘s creative director to revitalize the look of its pages and bring back “the glory of what used to be.” Almost immediately, the rumor mill started churning over what his arrival meant for the rest of the staff. The haute gossip, which could have doubled as a storyline on Ugly Betty, culminated in fashion director-turned Project Runway “star” Nina Garcia’s highly publicized departure earlier this year, yet Zee remained above the fray. Now Zee — who by many accounts is one of the most collegial fashionistas around — will moonlight on a new reality show, Stylista (premiering October 29 on the CW), which pits a crew of competing hopefuls against one other for a job at Elle—however, Zee’s one fashion maven who has no designs on a television career. “I understand the place of reality TV, so I would never pretend to be a television personality,” he says. “It’s much more interesting — if it works — to have it supplement what I already do.”
For Canadian-born Zee, who memorized fashion magazine mastheads between classes in high school, becoming one of fashion’s most respected and influential style mavens is a dream come true. While the self-described “pop culture junkie” has a fast-talking, fun-loving personality that seems tailor-made for the small screen, he says his head won’t be turned by stardom. “My first priority will always be the magazine.” Zee spoke with us about his purportedly glamorous (“but it really isn’t”) career.
Name: Joe Zee
Position: Creative director, Elle
Resume: Joined Elle in January 2007; editor-in-chief of Fairchild’s short-lived Vitals (2003-2005); fashion director at W; contributing fashion editor at Details and House & Garden; got his start at Allure. Has styled advertising campaigns for DKNY, Banana Republic, Estee Lauder, and the recent “(PRODUCT) RED” campaign for Gap, as well as the company’s Madonna-Missy Elliot ads in 2003.
Birthdate: November 23, 1968
Hometown: Toronto, Canada
Education: University of Toronto, Fashion Institute of Technology
Marital status: Single
First section of the Sunday Times: The Magazine
Favorite television show: Top Chef and American Idol
Guilty pleasure: Television
Last book read: The Emperor’s Children by Claire Messud. “It’s about a bunch of kids growing up in New York City. It’s a cross-section of culture and life.”
Did you always know you wanted to be in fashion?
I always knew I wanted to work in magazines. When I was in high school, I would sit between my free periods and read fashion magazines cover to cover. People use that term loosely, but I would literally devour every page — even the ads. I was really attracted to the branding, the designers. I would read mastheads to see who left, who moved up. As a kid in Toronto, none of these people had any resonance for me, but I started to learn doing that. I was attracted to all the fashion photography. This sounds so corny now, but I would look at a fashion story in Vogue and test myself and say, “Is this Louis Dell’Olio for Anne Klein? Is that Claude Montana?” Then I’d look at the credits and go, “Yes! That is it!” I think when I was younger, I translated that as loving fashion — and I do — but it was only when I got older, I started to see that I actually loved magazines. Now that I’m even older, I realize I love media. I’m a huge pop culture junkie, so I watch tons of television. I see every movie. I know every Billboard Top 10 song. I read bestsellers. I’m there.
| “I looked at things from a different angles. I loved Charlie’s Angels, but where the average kid would say, ‘They’re so beautiful and glamorous,’ I also remember thinking, ‘Boy, that Aaron Spelling has really got it together.’” |
Fern Mallis told me she was voted “best dressed” in high school. Did you have any early indication that you’d be dressing some of the most famous women in the world?
When I was 16, Club Monaco had just opened in Toronto. There was only one store; it was downtown. It was a cool, hip place patterned after Charivari on 57th Street, and Fiorucci. It was the cool hybrid of those two stores. I walked in and I said, “I want to work here.” They hired me — I worked part-time. I’d literally finish school and run downtown and hang out with all the fashion guys that worked there. I was 16 and they were like 25. I was really attracted to that cutting-edge fashion scene.
You mentioned you grew up obsessed with television. Was there someone on the pop culture landscape at the time that had a huge influence on you?
I looked at things from a different angles. I loved Charlie’s Angels, but where the average kid would say, “They’re so beautiful and glamorous,” I also remember thinking, “Boy, that Aaron Spelling has really got it together.” I don’t think I was trying to be that way — I was just an old soul. I watched Dynasty and The Colbys — which I loved, but I thought, “Boy, they are really nailing the TV market.”
You have this fabulous-sounding job now, but entry-level jobs in fashion are notoriously tough. What was your least glamorous gig starting out?
People do think my life is so glamorous, but even now, there are so many moments now where it really isn’t. I interned at this small trade magazine, Sportswear International. They had no budget at all. I had to return the clothes [to the design houses]. They had an office in the Garment District, and I literally had to return all the garment bags pushing a Gristede’s shopping cart like a homeless person up and down Broadway. I look back now and I think, “I can’t believe I did that.” At the time I was like, “I can’t believe I get to go to these showrooms!” I was so excited by the experience. Now, with the interns or even assistants, it’s like, “No one is doing that!”
| “I think a lot of fashion people don’t like celebrity culture. I love an actress, a musician, an athlete because they have a personality and a dimension they bring to something that I can’t get from an 18-year-old model.” |
Of course not, they want to run the magazine…
That whole entitlement thing is baffling. When I was doing the shopping cart thing, I was so happy to meet that person at the showroom — and the person was the receptionist. Nowadays, if [interns] don’t go on a photo shoot they are really upset. I think you’ve got to earn that. I was at W, and I had an intern. On her first day — she hadn’t done anything yet — she walked up to me and said, “I just want to ask — if you have a photo shoot with Gwyneth Paltrow, I’d like to come.” Half of me was like, “I kind of like that tenacity,” and the other half of me was like, “Why don’t you do what we need to do here first? I love that you’re putting in your order for which actress you’d like to meet. I can’t believe you’re doing this on day one!”
You worked with Tom Ford when he guest-edited Vanity Fair‘s Hollywood issue in 2006 and styled several of Gap’s ad campaigns. Did you find it difficult to work with a lot of celebrities on those big jobs?
I was embracing celebrity culture early on — and still — because I actually respect and appreciate it. I think a lot of fashion people don’t like celebrity culture. I think [for] a lot of them, it’s been an infringement on their world a little. I love an actress, a musician, an athlete because they have a personality and a dimension they bring to something that I can’t get from an 18-year-old model. Celebrities bring something else to fashion, to pictures.
Many fashion designers have told me over the years that they feel somewhat forced to be part of the celebrity game, especially when it comes to dressing stars for award shows. How would you characterize the overall feeling of fashion towards celebrities today?
There is a segment of fashion that really embraces it, and there’s a segment that really feels they have to embrace it and there’s a segment that says, ‘You know what? I can do without them.’ I respect all of them because if we were all homogenous, it wouldn’t really work. Are we all chasing celebs? I think we all are a little bit. Is it over- saturated? It is sometimes, but I don’t see it letting up any time soon.
Like it or not, it’s part of the culture we live in. [Celebrities] account for a big part of [the fashion] business. Something worn by “X” celebrity can translate into huge sales. Award shows have become red carpets. The Oscar pre-show is more interesting than the awards. People care more about what someone looks like than they do about who won Best Actress. I don’t know if someone could remember that [this year] Tilda Swinton won Best Supporting Actress, but they can certainly tell you about the dress she was wearing. That part is fascinating.
So the trend of celebrities supplanting models on magazine covers will continue for the foreseeable future?
Everything is cyclical but for now, they’re not going anywhere. People ask “When will the models be back?” I think if it’s the right model, they will be back.
Has the celebrity quotient in Elle increased since you’ve come on board?
Maybe a little bit. We definitely still have our models, whom I love, but there are some celebrities who are Elle girls. That’s one of things I talked about doing when I came on board — redefining that colloquialism: “She’s so Elle” or “She’s an Elle girl;” having that definitive quality back.
Who is the “Elle girl?”
She’s young, she’s a rule-breaker, she’s slightly rebellious. For me, she’s all sorts of different people. She could be Chloe Sevigny or Chan Marshall. It could also be Kate Lanphear who is in our fashion department. She’s my style director. They don’t feel they need to interpret the runway head to toe. When I got here Robbie [Myers] was so particular about saying Elle is about celebrating personal style. I love that.
I loved the look of Vitals. You’ve been reunited with your design director Paul Ritter at Elle. What major changes have you instituted in the look of the magazine?
We did the major redesign last September. We’re constantly evolving for no other reason than we’re always bored with ourselves and we always want to be better than last time. We want to be more unpredictable and exciting. Robbie, Paul and I always want things to be moving forward. We’ve done the huge drastic change — now, it’s the constant evolution of what that is.
At Elle, how do the responsibilities of a creative director differ from a fashion director? You are senior to the fashion directors, right?
Yes, they report to me. I’m responsible for all the visuals in the magazine, cover to cover. I have a lot of input into which celebrity we put on the cover. The big thing I did when I got here was change the roster of photographers and stylists we use, and really sort of take it to the next level — bring the glory back of what used to be. People keep referencing the old ’80s Elle to me. They loved it. I find a lot of inspiration in that, but I didn’t want to do a magazine that was completely referential or retro. We do those touches now and then, but we really have to do what the next look is.
Speaking of fashion directors, were you surprised at the amount of coverage of Nina Garcia’s departure?
I don’t know if surprised is the word. It was at a time when it was all about Project Runway. It has a really strong following. There was so much business press about the switch from Bravo to Lifetime, it was a topic that was top of mind. Her departure just added a footnote to all the stories and fuel to the fire. I’m not shocked about that aspect. I’m more shocked that I didn’t know we were so interesting.
When did the comings and goings of a staff at a fashion magazine go beyond getting covered in WWD and move to Page Six?
It was in People! That’s what I was shocked by, because people come and go daily. I’ve been doing this 20 years, and it was never like this. I think it was the timing, and that it was an interesting footnote to all those stories about the networks and the future of the show. [Garcia] is part of the show, and it was no different than if Michael Kors was doing something. They would have covered that extensively, as well.
Have you spoken to her since she left?
I haven’t. I think she’s been on holiday. She’s editor-at-large here. She’s starting at Marie Claire in the fall.
So now you’re Elle‘s latest reality star. What was your first reaction when they approached you about doing Stylista?
‘
The mechanics of the show were up and running prior to me coming to Elle. Robbie was like, “Come in and have a meeting with these guys.” When I did, it sounded like an interesting concept, and everything rolled really quickly. When they asked me to do the show, I said, “Sure.” Robbie has been really smart about this. She’s like, “We have to constantly reach out to new people” and that’s what television is about — allowing you to reach a whole new group of people. I’m happy to help out with the magazine in any way that I can. It’s been fascinating for me, as a television junkie, to break down the fourth wall and see how it all works.
| “I meet many people who are not in my world, and they think all I’m doing is running to a fashion show, then a movie premiere, and then I’m having dinner with Julia Roberts. That almost never happens.” |
Tell me about your role.
My participation in the show is minimal. I’m a judge. I only needed to come every third day. The shoot was four weeks. We usually did it after work, in the evening. It didn’t really affect my work day. It was easier for me because I don’t need to show up early for hair and makeup.
Anything about the experience take you by surprise?
At the beginning, it was a little trial and error. [For] the first two episodes, we were there until 4:30 in the morning — it was all new. By episode[s] three and four, they really nailed it. There were times when we were out by 7:30 or 8:00 p.m. and I got there at 3:30 pm. They were on it. The only shocking part was [how] everything happened so quickly. You’re watching these shows and you think it’s a longer period of time, but everything just really happens fast.
[TV] shows have done a lot to democratize fashion. The average person knows — or at least thinks he or she knows — a great deal about the industry. What’s the most common misconception you’ve dealt with?
People think my life is really glamorous. I meet many people who are not in my world, and they think all I’m doing is running to a fashion show, then a movie premiere, and then I’m having dinner with Julia Roberts. That almost never happens. It’s a very small part of my job.
[These shows] make it look glamorous, but not for one second do I think that’s [how] doctors act when I watch Grey’s Anatomy. I don’t think every cop looks like Mariska Hargitay. You have to understand it’s a certain level of entertainment. As long as people are aware of the industry, that’s great.
What did you learn in the earliest stages of your career that’s still relevant to what you do today?
My eye and my taste level. My first job was working for Polly Mellen, and she really taught me how to see and appreciate fashion. She had the strongest work ethic. For me, that’s very important. The other part is, I’ve worked for Linda Wells, Patrick McCarthy and now I work for Robbie Myers. These are three bosses I want in my life if I had to re-pick them all over again. They understood the value of the person they hired. They never micromanaged and they let you do your thing.
I’ve learned never to micromanage my staff and let them do their best.
What do you consider your greatest accomplishment to date?
I’m proud of a lot of things I’ve accomplished in my career. Definitely working with all these incredible, world-renowned photographers that I admired all growing up (Bruce Weber, Annie Leibovitz) was a highlight, and that also includes doing one of my first-ever styling jobs with Richard Avedon. Definitely conceiving and launching Vitals. And of course, watching Elle evolve now is great to see.
Biggest disappointment?
My biggest disappointment is probably that Vitals didn’t get a chance to really take off. I’m so proud of the staff that worked there, though. We were a small but dedicated group committed to the project and nothing else. They’ve all gone on to have amazing jobs right now. But I think the idea of Vitals just came around at the right time where that idea of unapologetic service married with luxury and design really resonated with some people. Occasionally I see influences of it still in other magazines. But I’m also not nostalgic about the end of Vitals, either. It was a good notch on the timeline.
How would you say you’ve gotten to where you are?
No sleep. Dedication. Passion. Loving what I do every single day. Being serious, but not taking it serious[ly] at all.
Do you have a motto?
I don’t take no for an answer. Polly Mellen taught me that.
Diane Clehane is a contributing editor to FishbowlNY. She writes the ‘Lunch’ column.
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